The Practice Gap
The Practice Gap
#32 Experiences From Crafting Financial Partnerships When Opening A Practice-with Kristoffer Nordrum Hansen
Learn and get inspired by how to solve financial partnerships in chiropractic practice. In this episode Kristoffer Nordrum Hansen tells openhearted about what he and his partner Marius Riiber Eikeland did and how it works. As he returns on this podcast he tells how they worked on creating fair and effective income agreements. Discover a model that shuns internal competition, enabling chiropractors to focus on what truly matters—patient care and collaborative success. We tackle the often-daunting topic of money matters head-on, with Christoffer shedding light on various financial structures and the vital need for open communication. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or just starting out, these insights are invaluable for keeping your practice's pulse strong and steady.
We share tales from different walks of chiropractic life, demonstrating how personal experiences shape our professional journeys. The conversation then transitions to the art of relationship-building within the practice, drawing parallels to a marriage that necessitates patience and active nurturing. This episode is more than just a guide; it's a testament to the human connections that define and drive the chiropractic profession forward, with Kristoffer's experiences offering a roadmap for success and fulfillment.
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Elisabeth Aas-Jakobsen, DC, MSc
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Hi and welcome to the Practice Gap, the podcast for closing the gap between the practice you have and the one that you want. I'm Elizabeth, a chiropractor, a business owner, coach and entrepreneur, on a mission to help you move from frustration and overwhelm to clarity, focus and joy in practice. Hi and welcome back to the studio. Christoffer Nordrum Hansen.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me again.
Speaker 1:We are going to keep focusing more a little bit more about the process of opening your own practice, and let's start with a theme that could be difficult and that is fine if you are working owning a clinic with someone or buying yourself into clinic or practicing with someone, how you should have the financial agreement, because I know there's many different ways of doing that. So let's start by talking a little bit about your model and why you chose to do it that way.
Speaker 2:Yes, so this is something that we discussed all the way in the beginning of the process in the basement of Peppers Pizza in Almight. We both agreed.
Speaker 1:It's a place for creativity.
Speaker 2:Yes, it should be almost a commercial. We decided there that we wanted to split all the incomes in 50%. So 50-50%, because we thought that was fair to both of us. We knew that we would put in about the same or just the same effort into building up the clinic and practice. Also it was fair because we didn't want the situation where we started to pull on each other's end of a new patient coming into the clinic. So we both thought that if one would come in we both would earn and have so it really doesn't matter who it goes to, because you split everything 50 to 50.
Speaker 2:Yes, as long as the patient doesn't really want to come in. Yeah, yeah, but thinking about the financial, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, before you did that, did you have a decision on, like, these are the times we were working. Okay, we are both going to work eight hours or seven hours in the clinic each day, or did you have the talk about how much effort you would actually put in?
Speaker 2:Yes, so we did talk about our opening times and what would be. We both considered to be enough and we agreed that it shouldn't be a big difference. But sometimes life happens and you have to change maybe some of the work schedule. But working now for almost two and a half years, I would say we have put in almost about exactly the same hours. So I don't feel there's any difference between us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you put in about the same number of hours. Is there a big difference between the amount of patients? Does one person see more patients than the other, or is it about equal?
Speaker 2:It's a little bit different or a little bit different difference between us, but you're not noticeable almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's tons of different things you need to get done in a clinic. So, it's not like when you don't have patients, there's nothing to do.
Speaker 2:No exactly, and I have to say also when expanding the clinic because it's expensive, we did most of it ourselves and Marius's father-in-law is a carpenter.
Speaker 1:So he came also to help us, so you use your network again. Yes, of course.
Speaker 2:So he stayed actually and he slept on the sofa of Marius and Kristel Three or four weeks to help out. So thank you, thomas, but in that period as well maybe I saw a little bit more patients that Marius did. But Marius put a great effort into building and being a second carpenter, kind of helping out and assisting to Thomas.
Speaker 1:So then you really need to have a mindset that you are the intention is to put in the same amount of work, and you have to be super clear that sometimes I can do a lot and sometimes I can do less, and you have to be okay with that.
Speaker 1:There are, for the younger car factors out there who are either going to buy themselves in to clinic or open a clinic with a friend of a colleague. There are many ways to practice. Some people I know they have company together, like they see that they have kind of a holding company and that company pays for all the expenses. And then I see my patients and you see your patients. I build my own clinic and you kind of bring your own practice and you pay in just a certain amount into the kind of company that runs the old expenses for the clinic. So that's one way that's pretty common. And then I know that some people have kind of like done what you've done. And then there's also where you do that and have a deal like a percentage deal, like if you see a lot of you present, you pay a percentage of your salary into the company.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have any? If you would give advice to the younger practitioner who wants to open a clinic, how can they find out what the best way to practice is for them? The financial agreements that they have to go through together.
Speaker 2:So I think you have to be very clear on what's important for you your values. Which should also be very similar to your companion. Yeah, and then I think, just be clear, because the economy is the root of all problems. It's a bit.
Speaker 1:economy is super and it's super, super, important.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And we I don't think we are always so good at talking about it, because it's both could be shameful, there are feelings to it and we are scared of greedy. Yeah, there's all this. There are all these feelings connected to economy and also being educated as a health care professional. We're probably even worse talking about modern day than other people.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think also you have to working with another. You also have to accept that some things is something is more important for him. So if Marius would like to have used money from the clinic to buy flour in his office, I don't mind, I don't need the same flour. So, it doesn't have to be 100% equal. I'm not going to charge the company 50 kroner to get the same amount back. As long as you can talk to him. I told Bonsmartis that maybe don't buy so much flour.
Speaker 1:Don't buy so many cups of coffee for lunch. Don't buy that expensive coffee for lunch.
Speaker 2:But then we it's only for love, we can just love of it. So we are on the same page.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so actually it kind of sounds like an advanced form for marriage. Yeah, you have to be super open and clear and wish the other person well and really talk about things and be Generous. Generous Thank you.
Speaker 2:So I definitely would say it's my second home.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's my second marriage. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's good and going from then, a marriage to relationships. Well, we talked a little bit earlier about you having gone out in the community to build some relationship. Could you talk? I know that you are have some passions in chiropractic. Could you talk about your big passion in chiropractic as it is right now?
Speaker 2:Yes. So my passion is really. I think we have something great too that should be more used by the population. I think other healthcare professionals should use us more within the musculoskeletal problems. On how we should increase the awareness in the community, I'm not sure, but for me it has been to kind of reach out to the doctors, to the training centers, physiotherapists. I've been trying to put a lot of effort into my journals we do send.
Speaker 1:Records.
Speaker 2:Yeah, records. So we do send quite detailed journal or notes from the first visit and also a short summary. After the patient has come and seen me, maybe four to six times, I send the doctor a short summary of how he or how the patient has I responded to treatment and also what I do recommend for further investigations or if I would refer them further on to physiotherapists.
Speaker 1:So the community and that goes back from one of the episodes with Hege and where she talks also about collaborating with other health care professionals and how beneficial that is for everyone and also it's a great way to spread the word that we can help people. Yes, because it's like. Sometimes I feel that corporate is a big secret that's kept, that needs to be shared more yes, and also, I think in this, in our clinic.
Speaker 2:I think I also sent good referrals to many other health care professionals than I did before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think maybe it's because I matured a little bit, also knowing kind of what my boundaries are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, being humble, again being humble, yeah, well, that's good yeah.
Speaker 2:But also I think it's important to send good notes to the surgeons or the physiotherapists. Everyone deserves a good note, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then how you can, that you are collaborating with other people to get the patient the help they needed, so they get better.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:For the whole. It sounds like you're. One of your passions, then, is to spread the word a little bit about increase the awareness of chiropractic and what we can do.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you feel kind of small being a chiropractor in this world and lose your way and how you can help your patients out there and to increase the awareness. What are some thoughts for, or some advice to the younger generation that comes out, how they can help increase the awareness in this, in this world, about what chiropractic can do?
Speaker 2:Well, I think to have some confidence. Walk in meetings with other health care professionals with confidence is important because you do have a great education and you know very much about almost quite a bit of the body function, musculoskeletal and also neurology. I have had some good discussions with neurologists at the hospital and I think he was surprised that you should Of everything I knew. So be confident that you shouldn't or you do know quite a bit at the same time, be humble again.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But don't be afraid of talking to other health care professionals. They're not going to bite you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also that self confidence it's we know a lot about the small, like what we know about, and then other people know their stuff. I think sometimes you think that when another health care profession they comes into your office is like you sometimes assume that they know everything about the back. I do it all the time. In my clinic I just had a new patient who was a medical doctor and she had pelvic pain and pregnancy and she's totally open. I work as a medical doctor but I work in research and with lung function. I know nothing about the musculoskeletal system and it just treats me like I know nothing and then just it kind of makes it easier for me and because I don't know what she does with the lung, research is like I don't that, I never knew, read that and to find that you have your own place in it and not be scared that you know stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes, I experienced the same thing and say it's just treat other health care professionals the same way as you do with everyone else.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that's why they came to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And that's what, when I, when I go to a colleague with my problems, I also always say, like just tell me exactly what to do, what kind of exercises, when should I come back? Yes, I'm not ever going getting better with this past.
Speaker 2:And it's just.
Speaker 1:I also just want to be treated as a normal patient. I want to. I want to prognosis, I want somebody to take care of me. Other advices for that we can do to help increase the awareness of what we can do.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm putting you on a spot Important. I mean having asked me so so many advice.
Speaker 1:We've gotten so many wise. I'm super, super happy about that, for what are the biggest success factors? You see, in the people you went to school with and who's been working for you know, like now seven, eight, nine years, do you see a difference in those who really make it and are happy and those who are struggling?
Speaker 2:That's also a difficult question. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, but I think I can see most of my friends are quite successful. There are some that I did go to school with that has either decided to become a medical doctor and continue with their studies because they didn't find the carapact. They didn't really find the use of carapactics with their patients and I don't know why or how.
Speaker 1:So they kind of just felt they couldn't help their patients.
Speaker 2:Yeah maybe they just met some resistance and then didn't enjoy it as much as I did. There also has been some others that have started working with something completely different, not health related at all.
Speaker 1:So they just left the profession.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then I have most of my friends are quite thriving and successful practices around and made it everywhere, all the way from in Oslo to Kristiansalm, salmavjorn, elvrum.
Speaker 1:So it doesn't matter where you are, it's all about what you do and who you are. Yes, so you can really open anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:When I came back from practice it was like, oh, there's one carapactor in Dramanor, there's one carapactor in Kristiansalm. So then it's like find another town. So it was like one person, you can go to Naribik. There's no one there.
Speaker 2:So it's like yeah, and that has changed, because now it's actually a woman, naribika, oh yeah so now it's like I guess, also that more creates more.
Speaker 1:when more people get treatments and are happy with their carapactor, then more people use carapactics. Yes, and that's good for everyone.
Speaker 2:Get the patients to talk about it, and it's the best commercial to get the word around. Yeah, and still the best way, I think, at least for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what made you decide to go into carapactics I?
Speaker 2:think the thing with working with people. I can't imagine myself just sitting next to a computer and a desk, so I need that personal feedback. Also, I think the chiropractic profession was interesting to me because I did experience when I was younger to get treated by a chiropractor, and so I saw my grandfather, father, used the same chiropractor, also, actually situated not too far away from where my clinic is now.
Speaker 1:So you had some personal experience that you saw your family being treated and you've been treated.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then I had some interest in the human body, but knowing that not everything has to be a typical A4.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, just the regular. How do you say that in English? Mainstream.
Speaker 2:I was curious about the chiropractic profession. I had a friend who started at the college a couple of years ahead of me and she told me all about how much interesting that she things that she learned. So it opened up the opportunity for me as well to look into it and I decided that this is what I really, really, really wanted to become.
Speaker 1:How did you choose on going to AECC? Or like, how did you choose to sing them?
Speaker 2:I think I know it was because it was close to home. And also then my family chiropractor. He had some kind of hand-ins, I think running it or starting the college. So he talked very well and learned about the AECC and how great it was, and I think it was. And then of course, my friend who started there as well, talked about the beautiful beaches.
Speaker 1:Beautiful women, beautiful beaches, good food.
Speaker 2:She forgot to mention it was in Baskin but she talked. Both her and the chiropractor talked about how well reputation the college had in the previous years. So that was a huge decision, part of the decision of how I ended up in Bournemouth.
Speaker 1:So we affected each other when we talked about the place we went to school, so we never know who we will affect today and tomorrow and what that will bring in the future. Good, I am so happy that you have been here and shared your experiences. It's really valuable and also that when you've been working for some years and it's really good to see how the passion in your eyes when.
Speaker 1:I sit down here and talk to you, you can truly see that. But how passionate you are about chiropractic and I'm certain that a lot of younger chiropractic now will feel more confident that they can go out and open their old clinics. And also, to sum up a little bit, there are many different ways to open a practice. Together and find the different ways, talk to different people what they did and how that worked and find a way to practice that fits your values.
Speaker 1:Again, talk about possible pitfalls and the thing that can go wrong. Look at this as a beautiful marriage that you need to nurture and be patient with each other and wish each other well, and then you have all the possibilities in the world to make a great practice. And then do them. Every small chiropractor, or big or large, they do small things you do every day, like talking to other health care professionals about the patient and helping the patient get better, communicate and be humble and be interested.
Speaker 1:That thing increases the awareness of chiropractic. Makes probably our future bright and wonderful.
Speaker 2:Does that sum up? Yes, again, it's a good summary.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Thank you so much, christopher, happy that you've been here.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Bye.