The Practice Gap
The Practice Gap
#33 What do those who succeed in practice have in common? - A Conversation with Carine Tobiasson
Join us in this episode with Carine Tobiasson from Praksisliv, who's spent over 20 years working with chiropractors and therapists. She's here to share her tips on how to make the most of your career in chiropractic care. If you are physiotherapist, massage therapist, osteopath or any other therapist, everything in this episode is relevant to your practice as well.
We'll talk about what makes a chiropractor stand out from the crowd. It's all about passion, learning from your experiences, and building strong connections with your patients. Plus, we'll tackle the common struggle many chiropractors face: confidence. We'll share some practical tips to boost your confidence and improve your practice.
Imagine building relationships with your patients that go beyond just their medical needs. We'll discuss the importance of good communication and how small gestures can make a big difference in healthcare.
I'll also share my own story of learning and growing in the field, including the benefits of reviewing your interactions with patients to get better at what you do. And don't worry, we'll give you some straightforward advice on how to build a loyal patient base.
So, if you're looking to take your chiropractic career to the next level, tune in for some valuable insights and actionable tips. You won't want to miss this!
I am honored that The Practice Gap is on the list of the Top 100 Chiropractic Podcasts on the web. Link is below.
https://blog.feedspot.com/chiropractic_podcasts/
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Elisabeth Aas-Jakobsen, DC, MSc
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Hi and welcome to the Practice Gap, the podcast for closing the gap between the practice you have and the one that you want. I'm Elisabeth, a chiropractor, a business owner, coach and entrepreneur, on a mission to help you move from frustration and overwhelm to clarity, focus and joy in practice. Hi, carina, welcome to the studio. It's so good to see you. Thank you, although I actually see you quite's so good to see you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Although I actually see you quite a lot during the week because we work together. Yeah, could you please tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have been in, if I could call it this business, this practice business for my whole career, practice business for my whole career. I started, like I think it is like 20 years ago now, in the reception, in the clinic, and I've done, like I think, everything you can do in the clinic that's not, you know, treating patients if you can say that.
Speaker 2:I've taken the phone, I've worked with marketing, I've worked with numbers, I've worked with helping therapists, like yeah. So and for the last couple of years I have run a business with you called Praxis Liv, where we help clinics, take their phones and just insurance for them and just help them with every practical thing they need in their everyday life.
Speaker 1:What has made you stay in this business for 20 years?
Speaker 2:I think, first of all the people. You know everywhere I go. People are so great, they are so you know people know people are, you know, so good and great and I experience that everywhere I go and I think I like to work in a business that helps people and you know that's it's a like a meaning and more meaning to the, the work I do, because I know that the work I do helps people. Who helps people? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you work with your numbers, yeah, she loves statistics and numbers and excel and excel which most chiropractors and other therapists kind of hate. They don't even know what it is yeah then you, then you are just part of this helping people business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, yeah, and that you know gives some meaning. Yeah, in my life, yeah, In your career.
Speaker 1:You've seen chiropractors and other therapists from being just starting out, yeah, and you have also been working with a lot of experience and working for 30 years plus. So you know a lot about the journey from just starting out to ending up as a successful chiropractor or other therapist. Is there some? What are the biggest commonalities with the people just starting out and who really make it? How early can you spot like, wow, this one is special.
Speaker 2:I think, where you can spot it pretty early. And I think it is something with their, something maybe about their passion and about their practice and their patience and, I think, the willing to learn from others, not being afraid to to try new things yeah, try new things and try to, you know, use the people around them to be better in a way are you thinking like more what you?
Speaker 1:what I hear you saying is like people are more coachable. Yeah, like yeah, yeah, yeah, they ask questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they want to know that they, you know they, yeah, and they, and they're not afraid to ask questions, they're not afraid to you know, I think many are afraid to feel that people should see that they're not good enough. They look a little stupid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they look a little stupid. If they open their mouth they're like oh, I should know this.
Speaker 2:You know, and they are good at observing other therapists and in learning from other therapists. I think another thing that they are good at observing other therapists and in learning from other therapists. I think another thing that they are good at, yeah, communicate. I think that if you see back, if you see the other way, if you see people who are very successful today, what you know separates them from persons that are not, or maybe less. I think it's not always that they are really good at no, okay, they're not book smart, but they are really good at talking to people and making the patients feel like they've seen and heard and and that does that the patients come back to them and recommend them to other patients and then they got a lot of patient and that makes them good at treating people.
Speaker 2:So, it's not like they are good in the beginning, but they get good because they have so many patients and I think that's one of the tricks. People think that people who's really successful is because they are so book smart and they're so good at treating people, but it's the amount of patience they have had that made them good at that In the beginning. They were just good at talking to people, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you get better as the more, the bigger practice you have. It's kind of like this, like a spiral that goes up the more people you treat, the better you get. Yeah, spiral that goes up the more people you treat them, the better you get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the better you are communicating your passion and seeing the person feel, so the person feels seen and heard, the more patient you will get because you will attract more people, yeah, and the better you get at treating people, so, yeah, I think that's maybe one of the things I see in the beginning, or yeah, yeah one of the big issues with with some really excellent chiropractors who hasn't really made it yet is a lack of self-confidence.
Speaker 1:They know so much, and they are kind of scared to selling themselves. They're scared to telling people like they should come see me, I can help you. So this lack of self-confidence, what have you seen? Have you in your career, have you met people who just see you see the potential and you see the lack of self-confidence? Have you seen them like break through and just really bloom, or you or do you think that will kind of hinder them in their blooming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does hinder them in them and I think I really see it mostly in women. We talk ourselves down a lot, but I think maybe one of the tricks if you can call it that is, I think maybe one of the things I've seen that could switch that or do that is that if you find one or maybe two things to be good at, you find your thing and you do that thing and not be good at everything, that you will find something, that when you specialize in something or find your thing, you stand out and you get a lot of, of course, you get a lot of those patience and you get good at that and that becomes you in a way.
Speaker 2:You know, that you know reflects the person you are and and I think that does something with your self-esteem you know that you feel better so so we're back to the, to the good spiral.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the better you have become and one certain little area, the more feedback you will get. That. Oh wow, you're so amazing at treating dizzy people or something like that. And then it builds because you get more dizzy patients and you get better at it, and then people are like, oh, she's so good at dizzy people.
Speaker 2:You should go see her.
Speaker 2:And then it kind of builds your yeah self-esteem and you should go see her and then it kind of builds your yeah self-esteem. And I think also if you work in a clinic with other chiropractors or other therapists, you know you don't have to like fight for the same patients and you know because then you're thinking, oh, why did she go to him and not to me? And you know that goes around in your head Because if you're just I'm treating, you know, ankles and all the ankle persons are coming to me, so then you don't have that fight in or not a fight, but you know that thing in the yeah.
Speaker 1:I have a story here when I just I think most chiropractors I speak for my profession we all think that as therapists, like there's a certain number of people out there who need us. So then if we are more than one person in a clinic, we kind of fight about, like.
Speaker 2:I have a petition about the same patients calling you to clinic. That's a good better word, but that's usually not really how it works.
Speaker 1:One wonderful I run my own practice. When I've just been a couple of years in practice, I was having a practice with my I run my own practice. I had a small practice and there was a lot of women, especially between 30 and 40, and had some kids, and I had been working there for a year and a half and then I was pregnant and at that time I was married to another chiropractor and when I stopped working he took over my practice because I had a small practice, so he could do both his practice and mine. And after a couple of weeks I was like, oh, how is Mrs Jones doing? She's like, oh, she was there once. So how is Marianne doing? Oh, she was there once. And then it turns out within three and a half weeks he had 80% men with acute low back pain and I just had, you know, like 8% women with chronic issues. And I'm like, wow, we could just work together at the same clinic, because we attract completely different patients and it's like it has nothing to do with.
Speaker 2:It's not about the cert, it's not about the numbers, it's who you attract yes, it is, and and I think you have to try to attract people to and you have to find something in yourself what are your passion and what are you? What do you like working with? And you know do and and you know trying or just doing that and you know Letting go of the others to find your thing. Because I really see that people who do that and some people do that without thinking that they're doing that, just going their own way, they don't have these issues with their self-esteem and things like that like people who doesn't do that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I had got this image of this chiropractic, this book that was written about a chiropractor His name is Fred Barge and it was like one of these green books, that this. There was this chiropractic books that was written like this green book series and the title of that book. It kind of always bounces back at me because it's like he wrote a book Life Without.
Speaker 2:Fear. Oh, that would be a great life.
Speaker 1:And that's such a beautiful, beautiful title. I don't remember much of the book, but just to work through having this fear, because we have all this fear, it's totally unnecessary and I see it in all the other chiropractors. It's like when you let go of the fear, then you kind of it's so much easier to bloom.
Speaker 2:It is, really it is, and it stops us from, you know, getting to be the person we really are, because we stop ourselves, you know, and we're looking for excuses in the environment around us and we just have to look at ourself, yeah but, that's the hardest thing too, because you have to, you know, do you know you have to go some some rounds in your head, yeah, and and maybe I try to.
Speaker 2:When people come to me and talk about these things, I try to say that, you know, go to the people that you get inspired by or that you know you think is, oh, this is really good chiropractor, and you know, just be with that person for a day or two and just see what does that person do, what does that person say, and you know it's like faking you till you're making it. You know, and try to do the same things, because you don't have to, like, figure it all out for yourself. You can learn from the people who has figured it out already. So do that, maybe a couple of times a year, and I have always done that in my career. I've always find the person that I admire or you know that I think he or she's really good at her work or his work. And you know I don't have that saying. I don't know if it's like a saying in English, but in Norwegian it's like hänge på de som et slips.
Speaker 1:I don't know what we can call it in English Hang around them like a tie. I don't know if that works in English. It's something like that.
Speaker 2:You know, you just have to stick with them and you just become their friend and, just, you know, learn from them. And the first years I did that, I was just sitting still and don't saying anything. I was just listening to what they did and what they say, and so many times I was thinking that, oh wow, they said that I would never, I wouldn't dare to do that. And I, hanging around them, I got the experience. Experience but not doing it myself, but by listening and seeing them to all the things they, you know, try to do and got to do that I would never, you know, dare to do. And then I, you know, learn and see oh, it's, it's going, oh, I can do that.
Speaker 1:And I think it's kind of having a free seminar every day you go, you go hang around with someone's like and you can just soak up their knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and I see, when I try to tell people you have to do that, many of the people who you know who experience that, oh, I don't have that self-esteem, and they I see that, oh no, they don't want to do that. That's too much and I think you that's the first step. Just do that. Find somebody, find somebody that you like and you know, go and learn from them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I had somebody working for me a few years or with me a few years ago and she's like, well, I could never. I know that you do that, but I could never do that. And I'm like, why? And it's not that you couldn't do it, it's like I don't want to try it. And it's kind of sad because you miss out and in the beginning you have to try different strategies. You can't figure it out. You haven't really learned it in school and you have to dare to try new things and new phrases and of course I mean you shouldn't copycat other people, but you have to do it in the beginning to find your style and then you, then you find your voice if you try different ways of or metaphors.
Speaker 2:That other people use, then you find.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is me and you can find inspiration. Yeah, and it's really nothing else than doing learning other things, but I think we're just fear fearing the communication part and try different phrases because oh no, that's not me.
Speaker 2:But I think you have to try that. You have to try it and in the beginning it doesn't feel like you. But then you find, like you say, your voice in it and it goes a little bit faster than yourself figuring everything out for yourself, because you can just take the things that others have figured out before and it's like reading a book the same way you learn.
Speaker 1:I did one very interesting thing early in my career. It was kind of scary. I actually recorded what I said during a conversation and I wrote it down and to check, like, what am I actually saying?
Speaker 1:And I'm like, oh man, and that's actually a great exercise to especially you know, like when you the first time, when you explain what you do and how to explain a chiropractic or how to conduct an interview to see what are you actually saying, yeah, and to have the courage to listen to yourself, or you can just I mean, you can just write down this is how you should stay, and then read it and like, does this make sense? How can I say this in different way? Yeah, and you do learn by writing. So then, actually writing down what you're saying and writing by maybe new sentences, which may be better, and or ask a colleague how do you ask about emotional problems or something like that? Or how do you explain chiropractic in three sentences?
Speaker 1:And then by writing that and actually practicing, out loud when there's no one there it's a really really good exercise that I think many people are super scared to do, because then you kind of look at yourself in the mirror and that's kind of hard.
Speaker 2:It's easier to go around with all your fear. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, that's a, that was a really good exercise. Yeah, yeah. And and I think also, then maybe you see what you don't tell the patients, all the things that oh, I, I think I tell them this, but I, but I don't. Yeah, when I I've been working in this business for so long, I get a, a lot of treatments, of course, that's a good way to learn.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, but I see that lack of communication with me as a patient. I see that so often and I miss that as a patient. You know, talk to me, tell me what you do, tell me what is going to happen next. I don't know these things. Maybe they think because I work in the business that I do, but I don't, that's not my field. Yeah, so you know, the communication bit is so important to make me stay as your patients, because else I just go somebody someplace else the next time.
Speaker 1:I think you are touching into something really important there that we kind of, when we have a patient over a few years, then it's kind of you forget about them. You talk about life and then you forget about the basic things that are actually there. I mean, they're happy, you're happy, everyone's happy, but you kind of forget that they still don't know as much or they're still very interested in knowing more about the body. I, yeah, had this experience. I went to one of my colleagues with I have a bad knees and he was working on my knee and he was so good at actually communicating time and what to do and how to. I'm like, just talk to me as I am, I don't know nothing about the knee. Give me exercises, yeah, and it was so helpful and I'm just a patient when I'm here it's like I don't know anything because it's my knee.
Speaker 2:I don't know anything about my knee.
Speaker 1:So I'm just being super clear with me on where I was, how much better I could become, how I should train. Yeah, it just made all the difference. I was just like I we need to be clear. Like I asked the one like how much better should I become? Oh, at least 20 percent better within six months.
Speaker 2:I'm like I am working yeah, yeah, of course that's hope thing, yeah, yeah kind of just amazed, blew me away.
Speaker 1:How important are little words. Yeah, I don't know, you know, if this the 20 better thing. And then this other guy. He said like of course you should be better. It just takes a long time. There's no reason why I shouldn't become really well, and that is just so motivating to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, and you know that brings us back to you know why does some practitioner or chiropractor gets? Uh, really good, I think it is what they say to their patients, their patients more, sometimes, more than what they treat in a way, if I can say that well, that's okay, okay, but most of the times that I've gone and get treatment myself, they haven't talked to me yeah, and that's sad in a way, and I've sticked with the ones who does, and I'm gonna be there for life because I know when I go, they talk to me, they see me, they give me something and if I'm, I'm in a longer treatment treatment program.
Speaker 2:Every time I'm there, they, because maybe the situation is not changing so much from time to time, but then they just give me something else In a way. They give me maybe a new exercise or something they have read about Do you know, carina, about this or this. So every time I go out, I've learned something in a way. And it could just be small things and they could be big things, but in a way they give me just not the treatment, but something else.
Speaker 1:And that.
Speaker 2:I also think that people who are successful do. Maybe they give the same advice to every patient every week. I don't know, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:I don't think you do Good people don't?
Speaker 2:They see it and they connect it and they see what you need that day.
Speaker 1:And I think that's kind of experience after a while, you know.
Speaker 2:You know the person.
Speaker 1:You know the person, you see it, and it doesn't take any effort Because you just know and.
Speaker 2:I think maybe it's. It must be more satisfying to be that kind of therapist too in a way, because you have another connection with your patients and I think that must be sad. I don't know because I'm not, but I would think that that would be satisfying for me if I was a chiropractor, to know how that's bound with my patients and I also think that new chiropractors they think their role is to fix a problem.
Speaker 1:It's like if I come in with a shoulder problem they just want to fix the shoulder, yeah, but I think a lot of in, especially in this world. Yeah, we, we need somebody to follow us through. Yeah, all this stuff for life I mean it's like it's not. This shoulder might be a problem, but there's always things. How do I maximize my life? I want to go to someone to say like, okay, how can I feel a little better? Or how can I, what can I do to become better?
Speaker 1:or stay healthier. I mean, one thing is to get rid of my headaches when I have that, but I also want that X factor. I want that something and that just it's. I mean, when my shoulder is treated, then there's always something new.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, most people have chronic issues In this world we live in, with all the stress and all the things we're going to do just in a day. Of course we get pains.
Speaker 1:And I think that maybe that has changed a lot during the 20, 30 years.
Speaker 2:The stress levels are so high. It is stress levels are so high.
Speaker 1:It is, and we are so inactive, it's so much.
Speaker 2:But before everybody. I remember when I was little, every family had their family doctor in a way.
Speaker 2:And it was like oh, this is our family doctor, he knows us, we go to him. Every time it is something in our family, and why shouldn't a chiropractor or a physiotherapist be the family chiropractor or the family physiotherapist? You know, this is the person that knows us and knows me, and every time I have an issue I go there, and maybe before it was just the doctors, but now every therapist can be a family therapist in a way, and people I think that's such as in the podcast with the Tona Tellefson she has a beautiful interview that talks about that to be like part of the family and having the grandmother the mother and that's how to create a practice for life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is really, and I think for me I have my you know my chiropractor and I'm going to stay with him for life and you know, it's so safe in a way because I know that I can go to him and he will help me and I can just book an appointment online if I have a back problem or my arm or anything and he will always help me. She's 74, going on 75, but she's 74 and she has found her therapists. She has an acupuncture that she loves and a chiropractor she loves and she goes to them regularly because you know she's, she's old and and she needs help. She's so much better than her. You know her friends in many ways because she's good at taking care of herself. But but she has used some time to find her people and I think, because it's not like you match with everybody, you have to try a little bit and then you find the person you match with and then the treatment gets better because you match in a way. So I think, find your people.
Speaker 1:I just went to the dentist two days ago and I just realized I've been with her for at least, I think, 20 years. You're getting old.
Speaker 2:And I might get old too.
Speaker 1:And I think the good thing she's a dentist, but she sees me, she always talks, she remembers my dog, she remembers. She's like how did that thing with the cabin work out? Yeah, she just remember. And she, she, we have this beautiful, nice, I mean, it does, it doesn't take many minutes, no, and I feel like, and she'll of course, ask her how she's doing with all the kinds of stuff and it's such a nice connection and I would never go to another dentist.
Speaker 1:I didn't go once because I was super desperate. I was at home in her. I feel safe. I have no idea if she's the best one in the world, but she's the best one for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Maybe that's some of the solution to how to get being a good chiropractor, is you know? Find your people, yeah.
Speaker 1:Find your patients. You know, find your patients.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the ones that you connect with and you hang in there, and also have the courage to stay with them yeah yeah, have the courage to really care, and I remember a good chiropractor who started out at one of the clinics I was working at and one of the things he did was in the journal every time. He of course he wrote all the things he should write, but he also wrote personal things. She's going on vacation, wrote personal things, she's going on vacation next week, or she's doing that, or he's doing that because he needs to remember that for the next time and he knew that he wouldn't remember, so he just wrote it down. So, and well, that's a good tip yeah, it is little things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you can't remember all the things, but people think that you remember so yeah, and and then also, when you write things down, you actually remember, yeah, and then you do remember the dog's name or something, yeah, so that's a trick you know to do that yeah well, that's a wonderful little trick and a tip, and so if we should sum up a little, bit, yeah, try it's really good to find your people be good at something like find your thing to be good at, yeah, and write down the little things.
Speaker 2:Yes, do that?
Speaker 1:What else did we?
Speaker 2:And dare to learn from the people that you admire.